TPM MAIN SITE REVIVAL PROJECT!

[firepokemon]

How is the layout going Jeff? Just though I'd respond to the thread because its gotten a bit quiet.

Am working on compiling data for RBY and Locatordex. Have been going through TPM's walkthru at the same time. I've noticed its rather problematic in several places and have been noting down any broken links and the like. What really surprises me is how long simply basic compiling of data is. Either I am slow and/or lazy or it truly does take a long time. I'm not even close for a rough draft. And certainly feel sorry for whoeever will be doing the HTML coding and the like for each route etc.

So I'll keep working on it. Though one real and relevant point. Would one prefer the percentages for each pokemon rather than Many, Common, Few or Rare?? Also and I'm not sure I'll be able to do it at this stage. But for each pokemon surely the levels of such pokemon available would be of help as well??

Edit: Bah I think I'll start playing Red or Blue again and then play Yellow. Shouldn't be too hard. I'll probably start playing tonight or tomorrow.

[mr_pikachu]

Yes, it does take awhile... I'm still working on GSC right now for the attackdex (RBY basically required copying and pasting a table). It's tedious, but it will all be worth it.

Broken links are tricky... I'll offer whatever help I can with that, if need be. We may be able to find ways around it.

Regarding the more detailed stats, I'd suggest starting with the information that's easiest to compile. Once we've got a complete list - whether or not it has the levels, and whether it shows percentages or descriptive words - then we can judge where we are in the process and decide whether to refine it before or after the launch.

[firepokemon]

Sorry I'm a bit confused when you say attackdex or attack list?

Since if its an attackdex you'll have what pokemon can learn that attack and a bit more. Mind you it is RBY isn't much to RBY. Good luck when you get to 3rd generation and beyond.

[Jeff]

Right now I'm working on a layout that combines the one I've been showing with the 2001 layout. Suffice it to say, it looks nothing like Serebii. It does look pretty bland though without any images (other than the TPM logo and the pokeballs in the sidebar).

For the dexes, one option would be to write a quick program to generate the HTML files, which would avoid the need to code all those files, but it doesn't avoid the need to upload all of them. I think the better option, however, would be to write the entry pages in PHP, that way there can be a single file for hundreds of entries. This would also save quite a bit of server space. I'm not sure how much space the databases would take up, but I'm sure it would be less than hundreds of HTML files. PHP doesn't look that hard to learn, it's basically HTML with a programming language embedded in it.

[mr_pikachu]

Sorry I'm a bit confused when you say attackdex or attack list?

Since if its an attackdex you'll have what pokemon can learn that attack and a bit more. Mind you it is RBY isn't much to RBY. Good luck when you get to 3rd generation and beyond.

It's starting as a pure attack list; eventually it will have links to the attack entries (which, in turn, will show such information as the Pokemon that may learn them). That's my current plan, at least. It may undergo some changes later.


Jeff: I look forward to seeing the new layout you have planned!

[firepokemon]

Do we actually have people that are capable of extracting data from both the old Gameboy games, the GBA games but also the DS games?

EDIT: Does anyone have files or anything on the old tpm pokedex. Out of everything on web.archive.org its the one thing I have not been able to find. I don't even remember if the pokedex was downloadable with the GSC information. I know one could download the pokedex with RBY but I really cant remember if that was the same with GSC. Its sad cause I don't even remember the pokedex much. But I really want to see it. Not just for the information it contains, but I'm sure it had a great design as well.

----

Edit Number Two. Did some digging up via the archives. Here's what I have found.

http://web.archive.org/web/200008150...s.com/pokedex/ Just what it looked like. Did have Pokemon Gold and Silver info. This looks like it was before the English release.

[ur]http://web.archive.org/web/20000816174135/www.pokemasters.com/pokedex/pc_pokedex.html[/url] - PC Pokedex page.

http://web.archive.org/web/200106160...c_pokedex1.jpg - Pokedex data screen

http://web.archive.org/web/200106152...c_pokedex2.jpg - Pokemon Location Screen

[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20000930101811/www.pokemasters.com/cgi-bin/image.pl?pokedex/pc_pokedex3.jpg[/ur] - Attacks and Evolutions Screen

http://web.archive.org/web/200009301...c_pokedex4.jpg - TMs&HMs Screen

http://web.archive.org/web/200106160...c_pokedex5.jpg - Stat Comparison Screen

More edits. Think I've found a way to access all 251 pokemon

[Dark-San]

Do we actually have people that are capable of extracting data from both the old Gameboy games, the GBA games but also the DS games?

I am pretty sure some TPMers are willingly to volunteer to help out if we approach them. The Pokemon games I have at the moment are Pearl, Mystery Dungeon Red Rescue Team and Explorer of Darkness. Might need some instructions to get those data that is required.

EDIT: Does anyone have files or anything on the old tpm pokedex. Out of everything on web.archive.org its the one thing I have not been able to find. I don't even remember if the pokedex was downloadable with the GSC information. I know one could download the pokedex with RBY but I really cant remember if that was the same with GSC. Its sad cause I don't even remember the pokedex much. But I really want to see it. Not just for the information it contains, but I'm sure it had a great design as well.

I think I will code from what Brian had mentioned earlier.

fp, stop for a bit. One of the other staff members just told me that we still have the information from the old Pokedex Project... that would almost certainly be easier to work with. I'll get back to you as soon as I've tracked down everything.

[Jeff]

OK, here it is. It's based off of the 2001 layout per DragoKnight's suggestion, and I think takes care of the "looking too much like Serebii" thing. Yes, I know it needs more images.



Edit: ImageShack, I didn't tell you to do that,

[mr_pikachu]

Hmm, I like it. In some sense, maybe it's a good idea to keep the color scheme of the main site different from that of the forum... this definitely works toward that goal.

We've talked about this before, so I know your reasons for the current logo setup. Once we get a logo with a white (or transparent) background, though, I'd suggest putting it within the white area. It just seems a little odd at the top, all alone. (Maybe a larger logo wouldn't look so weird... I dunno.)

That's just my opinion, though. What does everyone else think?

[Heald]

I'd just like to say that, since I had no means to reply to this because of my lack of Internet, this has my full support, and if you need a hand on anything feel free to drop me a line.

[Jay Umbreon]

good work guys
its awesome that you're taking the time out to do this.
much admiration.

[Crystalmaster Mike]

First of all, let me state: WHOLLY MOTHER O' WTF!! It be back?? Inform the newspapers!!!

Anyway, one aspect of the site you're really gonna have to work out, from the beginning I'd say, is security. You're planning on allowing blogs, where people have to log in and what not, and you're planning on creating another of many sites with sprites prone to "save as"-malice.

Serebii has one way of avoiding its content being ripped off so easily (no right-click), but there might be others...

Whoever mentioned we might be able to stand out by our Forum-related topics is right according to me.
Maybe a monthly newsletter or homepage post on recent "masterpieces"?

Next up, linkage. Tsuyoi's Lair, Deviart, ... Having direct hyperlinks leading to and from those sites may up our click count considerably.

As for content, I support firepokemon's suggestion to use old content from web.archive.org. Outdated? Only for the newest games. (Only 151 Pokémon, what?) Useful? You bet.

Apart from that, localisation. What's Chimecho's French name? How do I order my Dutch Sentret to do Sand-Attack (in the Anime)? May be that it's useless, but they're fun facts non the less

Might I ask, what technology you are planning to use? Of course, revealing it is a breach of security as well (), so if you'd rather PM it, that's okay.

Personally, I'm uncertain what I could contribute myself. As you may have noticed, I've been rather "non-existant" lately (again), partly because the of "working 9-2-5" routine.
Recent Pokémon Spin-Off games I've played are Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness, and Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

[mr_pikachu]

I'm not sure I responded to the question about the Pokedex Project threads, so let me just say that the question's been posed. I don't think there will be a problem with that; the bigger question is how much useful information there is. We'll just have to see.


Heald and Jay: Many thanks! If you find a particular area in which you want to contribute, please just say so. We're pretty much welcoming anyone who wants to help! ^_^


Mike: I'll make a point of responding more fully to your post once my midterms have concluded (should be Monday, woo!), but I like your ideas on security and links. We'll see whether implementation of those would be good and if so, how we'd go about doing it.

[Jeff]

I remember seeing a free script somewhere that blocked right clicks on images and kept people from dragging and dropping them onto their desktop (I showed a while back that Serebii's script doesn't protect against drag and drop). And since it only blocks right clicks on images, then the visitor will still have access to the right click menu, just not on images. I'll have to see if I can find it, if not I can always write one.

Edit: OK, it wasn't that hard, I just threw a script together that blocks the right-click menu on images only. It also gives an alert telling the visitor why they can't right click images (instead of confusingly having the menu just not pop up with no feedback). It doesn't prevent drag and drop though, that seems to be pretty tricky to block, but at least we'll have some security.

[firepokemon]

In regards to status of RBY Locatordex. The fundamentals are done. But its lacking a few things. Don't have levels of pokemon, for some sections don't have percentage just have whether they're common, few, rare etc. Also seriously missing much on fishing. Since I was literally taking information from the TPM walkthru. Lacks explantions for the trades etc and basically I need to go through all three games just check everything etc etc.

But just to show you how I was thinking here is a few examples.

First Safari Zone:

Safari Zone

The Warden lives beside the fishing guru and will reward you with the Strength HM.
To enter the Safari Zone you must pay $500, and the first area you'll come to is the entrance that'll connect the three areas.

Entrance
Red: NidoranM (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Rhyhorn (15%) Venonat (15%) Nidorino (10%) Nidorina (5%) Parasect (5%) Scyther (4%) Chansey (1%)
Blue: NidoranF (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Rhyhorn (15) Venonat (15%) Nidorina (10%) Nidorino (5%) Parasect (5%) Pinsir (4%) Chansey (1%)
Yellow: NidoranM (25%) NidoranF (15%) Exeggcute (15%) Parasect (15%) Rhyhorn (10%) Nidorino (10%) Paras (5%) Tangela (4%) Chansey (1%)
Nugget

Area 1

Red: NidoranM (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Doduo (15%) Paras (15%) Nidorino (10%) NidoranF (5%) Parasect (5%) Kangaskhan (4%) Scyther (1%)
Blue: NidoranF (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Doduo (15%) Paras (15%) Nidorina (10%) NidoranM (5%) Parasect (5%) Kangaskhan (4%) Pinsir (1%)
Yellow: NidoranM (25%) Exeggcute (20%) NidoranF (15%) Tauros (10%) Nidorina (10%) Cubone (10%) Marowak (5%) Chansey (4%) Scyther (1%)

Carbos
Max Potion
TM 37
Full Restore

Area 2

Red: NidoranM (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Rhyhorn (15%) Paras (15%) Nidorino (10%) Nidorina (5%) Venomoth (5%) Chansey (4%) Tauros (1%)
Blue: NidoranF (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Rhyhorn (15%) Paras (15%) Nidorina (10%) Nidorino (5%) Venomoth (5%) Chansey (4%) Tauros (1%)
Yellow: NidoranM (25%) NidoranF(15%) Exeggcute (15%) Kangaskhan (15%) Rhyhorn (10%) Nidorina (10%) Cubone (5%) Scyther (4%) Pinsir (1%)

TM 40
Protein

Area 3

Red: NidoranM (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Doduo (15%) Venonat (15%) Nidorino (10%) NidoranF (5%) Venomoth (5%) Tauros (4%) Kangaskhan (1%)
Blue: NidoranF (25%) Exeggcute (20%) Doduo (15%) Venonat (15%) Nidorina (10%) NidoranM (5%) Venomoth (5%) Tauros (4%) Kangaskhan (1%)
Yellow: NidoranM (25%) Exeggcute (20%) NidoranF (15%) Tauros (10%) Nidorino (10%) Marowak (5%) Pinsir (4%) Tangela (1%)

Gold Teeth
HM 03
TM 32
Max Potion
Revive (Hidden)
Max Revive

--

Clearly in actual HTML you could have sprites and done in tables so it looks cleaner. But I guess you get an idea at least.

----

Example - Route 2

Route 2

Red: Pidgey (Many) Rattata (Many) Weedle (Few)
Blue: Pidgey (Many) Rattata (Many) Caterpie (Few)

Available after Digletts Cave:

Blue/Red: First house a guy will trade you Mr. Mime for Abra.
Yellow: First house a guy will trade you M. Mime for a Clefairy.

In the second house there is one of Professor Oak’s aide. If you have caught 10 or more pokemon he will give you the HM05 Flash.

A moon stone and HP-UP can also be found.

----

Here you can see that I don't yet have the percentage of where those pokemon can be found. Needs to be cleaned up and hadn't settled on the format for the items either.

----
Now Cinnabar Island.

Cinnarbar Island

By leaving the fossil with the professor here and coming back a little later, you'll receive Kabuto or Omanyte depending on which Fossil you chose in Mt. Moon. You can also drop off the Old Amber you got from Pewter City's Museum and get Aerodactyl. Since this will take a little time, explore the Fire Mansion next to the local gym. Inside you'll find the Gym Key and new Pokémon.

Red/Blue:

Trade Venonat and get Tangela
Trade Raichu and get Electrode
Trade Ponyta and get Seel

Yellow:

Trade Golduck and get Rhyhorn
Trade Growlithe and get Dewgong
Trade Kangaskhan and get Muk

TM 35

Additionally on Cinnarbar Island is the Mansion which contains many fire pokemon.

[/i]Pokemon Mansion[/i]

Floor 1

Red: Koffing (40%) Ponyta (40%) Growlithe (10%) Grimer (5%) Weezing (4%) Muk (1%)
Blue: Grimer (40%) Ponyta (40%) Vulpix (10%) Koffing (5%) Muk (4%) Weezing (1%)
Yellow: Rattata (35%) Raticate (25%) Grimer (20%) Growlithe (20%)

Escape Rope
Carbos

Floor 2

Red: Koffing (40%) Growlithe (25%) Ponyta (25%) Grimer (5%) Weezing (4%) Muk (1%)
Blue: Grimer (40%) Vulpix (25%) Ponyta (25%) Koffing (5%) Muk (4%) Weezing (1%)
Yellow: Rattata (35%) Grimer (35%) Raticate (25%) Muk (5%)

Calcium

Floor 3

Red: Koffing (40%) Ponyta (24%) Growlithe (15%) Weezing (15%) Grimer (5%) Muk (1%)
Blue: Grimer (40%) Vulpix (15%) Muk (15%) Ponyta (14%) Magmar (10%) Koffing (5%) Muk (1%)
Yellow: Rattata (35%) Grimer (35%) Raticate (25%) Muk (5%)

Max Potion
Iron

Basement

Red: Koffing (50%) Growlithe (15%) Ponyta (15%) Weezing (14%) Grimer (5%) Muk (1%)
Blue: Grimer (50%) Vulpix (15%) Ponyta (15) Muk (14%) Koffing (5%) Weezing (1%)
Yellow: Grimer (40%) Raticate (40%) Muk (10%) Ditto (10%)

TM 14
Full Restore
Rare Candy
TM 22
Secret Key

--

After defeating Gym Leader Blaine you will receive the Volcano Badge and TM 38

------

Once again pretty much same as Safari. Needs a few bits of extra work.

Further example - Power Plant

Power Plant

Red: Voltorb (35%) Magnemite (25%) Pikachu (25%) Magneton (10%) Electabuzz (5%)
Blue: Voltorb (35%) Magnemite (25) Pikachu (25%) Magneton (10%) Raichu (5%)
Yellow: Magnemite (40%) Magneton (20%) Voltorb (20%) Grimer (15%) Muk (5%)

You'll encounter Zapdos when you reach the end of the Power Plant.

Carbos
TM 33
TM 25
Rare Candy
HP UP

------

Last example -

Caledon City

In Celedon City there is the Department Store. A six-storey building where you can buy basic Pokemart items, TMs, evolution stones and Ability Increasers.

On the 3rd floor you will find TM18.

Buy 3 drinks from the refreshment machines on the sixth floor and give them to the thirsty little girl and in return she’ll give you TM13, TM48 and TM49.

In the Huge Mansion to the left of the Department Store has a secret entrance in the rear. There you will find an Eevee.

The house directly under the Game Corner has a man who will give you a Coin Case which will allow you to carry coins and purchase Pokémon and TMs at the prize station by the Game Corner.

The house by the Game Corner is accessible only by Surfing across the water. The man in front of it will give you a TM41 for your troubles though.

Inside the Game Corner you can find a total of 250 coins using the Item Finder. Each slot machine has a varying win/loss ratio so be sure to experiment until you get to one you like.

Game Corner

At the top of the screen, you'll find a Team Rocket member in front of a poster. Beat him then search the poster to open a secret entrance to the right.

There are 4 floors to the Game Corner's Team Rocket hideout. Check all of the rooms to make sure you get all 12 items from the PokéBalls scattered throughout the place.

There are 10 rocket members as well as their leader, Giovanni. To open the gates to the elevator, beat the Rocket in the 4th basement and then talk to him afterwards. Before confronting Giovanni you'll have to battle Jessie and James again (Yellow only). Then you can go confront Giovanni and recover the Silph Scope.

By defeating the Gymleader Erika you will receive the Rainbow badge and TM21.

-

If you collect all 150 Pokémon and then go to the Guy in the Celadon Mansion you'll receive your Diploma!!

-------------------

Clearly it needs to be cleaned up significantly. Needs to have levels etc. Will continue to work on it. I should be able to extract the percentage in locations and fill in the fishing stuff via extracting data using hex. Still to work on it. Will continue to work on it. Of course will be playing red, blue and yellow to make sure certain things are right and things are explained better in areas etc.

Will start on GSC which should be a hell of a lot easier, information on locations and pokemon seems to be way better. And I'm starting it because I'll only have a day and then I'm off on a weekend holiday (be away two-three days). And when get back will begin playing red etc and making sure details and everything are better.

[mr_pikachu]

Excellent work, both of you! Jeff, we'll see if we can get the drag-and-drop problem solved. There are some others here with programming knowledge, so they might be familiar with that sort of script. Thanks for taking care of the right-click, as that's the way in which most people swipe images.

firepokemon, that looks awesome as a starting point. I'm amazed you've been able to gather so much information so quickly. It needs cleaning, yes, but that's simpler than actually getting the data. I do wonder whether using sprites to identify the Pokemon in the locatordex is a good idea, as too many sprites on one page could affect loading times. We'll see as we get closer; it's not a concern for now. I can clearly see where you're going, and it should be sweet.

I'm continuing to work on the attackdex... progress has been slow with midterms taking up most of my time this week (I got less than two hours of sleep last night), but it's clearing up now.

Now, I have a question for everyone. I've been trying to figure out what elements are the highest priority for us to have at launch, and I'm just not certain from the range of responses. It does seem like it would be helpful to have a clear "to-do" list, though, for which people could volunteer.

Should we try to make something like that? If so, should I just make up a list and then let people suggest adds/drops? Simpler solutions are probably better for this... what do you all think?

[Phoenixsong]

Phoenixsong has crawled, slowly and painfully, out of the depths of intermittent lurkdom and would like to say...

Holy shit yes people are trying to bring TPM back whoo! No, really, I'm quite ecstatic that there's a serious revival effort going on. The TPM mainsite was probably my very first Pokémon site (probably one of the first websites I ever visited, actually) and I would be absolutely over the moon to see it up and kicking again. I think all of the ideas proposed here are wonderful and are definite steps in the right direction.

I'd really love to contribute, although I don't know how much help I'd really be. I can't find news, can't extract game data, can't program, don't like the animé, haven't touched the TCG since Rain Dance was king and Slowking was banned, can battle competitively but am not especially stellar at it, can't string two words of fiction together to save my life, haven't TPMASB'd in a year... I am, generally speaking, a useless lump of sod. ): That said, I do still draw/critique art, so I suppose I might be able to pitch in with a Fanart section when the important stuff is taken care of. I also know a little bit of web design and some self-taught HTML and CSS, so I might be able to lend a hand here or there. The main site design process should probably be left to Jeff, since I get the feeling he's better with this sort of thing than I am, but I dunno.

Uh, what else, what else, trying to be helpful here... um, as I said I haven't touched TPMASB in about a year (I would like to get back into it, though!), but as I am still active in TCoD's ASB I'm not entirely out of touch with the game. I wrote a sort of rudimentary article on the basics of ASB for my own website: general tips, common mistakes newbies make, tricks new members might not think to try, etc. I tried to keep it as general and ASB-unspecific as possible. While I'd rather not just hand that over to anyone, if you thought it was a good idea then I wouldn't mind someone modifying it to be more TPM-specific and letting the revived site have that. Alternatively I could revise it myself, given enough time to re-familiarize myself with the rules. Little donation, I guess?

Oh, and I have Platinum. I'm currently writing up a (horribly lame, I'll be the first to admit--apparently I am no good at blogging) sort of blog about it, but as soon as I'm done with that playthrough I could revise parts of it and eventually start another and use all that to write a walkthrough. The going would be slow with school and all, but if you can't find anyone else to do it then I can. Oh, and I can't read Japanese, unfortunately. The walkthrough would therefore have to be fairly general until the English release, but from there it wouldn't be hard to update at all.

One thing I have always wanted to do was a sort of "trivia Pokédex"... or... something. God, I never know what to call that thing. But, um, it's sort of like a Pokédex, only instead of focusing on specific game data it focuses more on the design of the Pokémon, where it got its name, interesting facts you might not know about it or maybe cool thoughts/theories about it that can be inferred from said facts/design influences/etc. Not as generally useful as a statistical dex, but as an artist/attempted writer/nerd I'd find a resource like that relatively helpful, and if nothing else it'd be something vaguely interesting to flip through while you're bored. Other than Bulbapedia's little trivia sections at the bottom of their articles this is something I've never seen, and certainly not in any staggering amount of detail. I wanted to do it for my own website, but since it isn't currently attached I'd be willing to do it for TPM instead, if you all don't think it's too lousy an idea.

I realize that with the exception of the web design kindofhelp and the Platinum info none of what I've suggested is high priority, and I agree that the game/cursory animé info should come first. (I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions for the to-do list at this time, Mr. P; maybe if I come back after giving the thread a more thorough readthrough instead of just skimming it...) But if you need a little help here and there when the appropriate times come, that's what I can offer and I'd be more than happy to.

On the subject of security, I do have something I'd like to say. Someone mentioned preventing people from saving/dragging and dropping TPM's images, and I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) they cited sprites as an example of something they'd like to protect. I... have mixed feelings about that. The thing is, the sprites, etc. aren't TPM's. Someone might spend a great deal of time ripping the sprites from games, and I'm not saying that that hard work means nothing and shouldn't be, say, credited where appropriate, but... it's not like you made it or have any real rights to it. :/ Now, I know you might be thinking "So what? TPM isn't a sprite resource. If they want sprites, and someone like PE2k is willing to offer them, let them go get the sprites from PE2k!" And yeah, they can, but... they're still getting the exact same image. In the end, you haven't prevented them from doing anything, so what's the point? (This is also why, incidentally, I don't see what's wrong with using at least the most basic resources for things like this. Why rip the sprites again when it's been done a hundred times before and there are people that don't care if you take them? Why reinvent the wheel?) Being miserly about an image that you have not created or modified in any way is rather silly, I think. Besides, sprites, Sugimori images, etc. that people can use for things can be a resource, too. Providing more resources certainly won't hurt the reborn TPM. I don't remember how TPM's old Imagedex worked (all I remember is that it was there), but why not let it double as a resource gallery if that wasn't already the plan?

Things like individual screenshots taken from games or episodes, on the other hand, are a little more personal and I can understand not being as willing to share those. And, of course, there's the fanart; there's no need to go around letting everyone have at that if that isn't what the artists want. I have absolutely no qualms about protecting those, for the record, and think it should be a priority (especially in the case of the artwork).

Then again, I don't know whether or not it's possible to prevent saving of only select images while being lax about it with others, so for the sake of the more original images the entire site will probably have to be save-protected anyway. I'd certainly rather that were the case than just allowing people to take those and other images that are definitely not up for grabs... I dunno. Maybe it's just me being needlessly nitpicky, but I guess what I'm trying to say is be careful about what you're saying you really want to prevent people from getting to. Being protective of things like the basic game sprites or Sugi art may not have been what people intended, and so I'm sorry for adding the tl;dr ramble to the already tl;dr post if that's the case, but... yeah. Urgh. I'm not sure why I even bothered editing this in, but there you go.

...I guess maybe you could protect the on-site images, but maybe offer downloads of sprite packages and things if people want? I'm just running my mouth here at this point, don't mind me.

On the other hand, since server resources are obviously going to be an issue, I think it would be a great idea to have a hotlink-protection script. Even if right-click and drag-and-drop are prevented, to the best of my knowledge it wouldn't be impossible for a particularly determined person to figure out the url of the image and link to it offsite.

As a random, totally unimportant thought, a cool idea for an article or something might be listing what cues the main games and TCG have taken from one another--Blastoise's Rain Dance power becoming an actual attack in GSC, for example. It would be small and is obviously bottom-priority right now, but I figured I'd mention it now before I totally forgot. Someone more in-tune with the current face of the TCG would be better equipped to write that article than I, of course, but...

[mr_pikachu]

Okay, it's been over three days, and no one's objected to me making a list of must-have components and opening everything for discussion. As such, I'm going to go ahead and do so... we want to keep this moving, after all. Please feel free to comment on items you think should be moved around, added, and removed.

I'm very open to discussion on these. In fact, some of the things in the "Eventual Features" section are only there because no one has shown interest in doing them... if you think you can take a major section and have it ready by launch, then say so and we'll all talk about it.

Once it's clear what features we're prioritizing for launch, we can make good use of this new subforum by making threads for each major section. That's why this needs to be done as soon as possible. We just need to know how to move forward!




Launch Priorities


-Primary Components

-Website Layout (Jeff working on this)
-Security (Jeff working on this)
-Future Release Countdowns (Jeff working on this)
-Logo/Other Art (Bulbasaur4 working on this)

-Games

-RBY

-Walkthrough(s)
-Locatordex (firepokemon working on this)

-GSC

-Walkthrough(s)
-Locatordex (firepokemon working on this)

-RSE

-Walkthrough(s)
-Locatordex (firepokemon working on this)

-FrLg

-Walkthrough(s)
-Locatordex (firepokemon working on this)

-DPP

-Walkthrough(s)
-Locatordex (firepokemon working on this)

-Pokedex (game stats)
-Attackdex (mr_pikachu working on this)
-Itemdex

-Anime

-Background (mr_pikachu working on this)
-Character List (mr_pikachu working on this)
-Episode/Movie List (mr_pikachu working on this)

Eventual Features


-Games

-Pokedex

-Pokemon Descriptions
-Translations
-Additional sprites (different games, shiny, etc.)

-Picturedex

-Anime

-Episode/Movie Summaries
-Episode/Movie Reviews

-TCG

-Rules
-Set Lists
-Card of the Day/Week
-Strategies
-Major Tournament List/Countdowns

Forum Sections*

-Advanced Generation
-Fanfic
-ASB
-RPG

*-I've only listed information for sections in which the moderators have expressed interest. We haven't done much discussion about what will be in each section; since this ties back to individual forums, the moderators of those forums should probably lead the discussions.




Phoenixsong: Love the enthusiasm! Let me just look through this...


Contributions: Well, you said you're still working as an artist, right? Remember how the old main site cycled through different logos and such? We may end up doing something like that again. If you think art might be an area in which you'd want to contribute, talk with Bulbasaur4. She's sort of heading the development of that section right now.

Some ASB stuff would probably also be cool for the forum-based information. And I like the idea of trivia, as well. We'd have to think about how to implement it - could we get enough information to have a distinct section for it, or should it be integrated into the Pokedex? - but it sounds like something worthwhile.

As for Platinum, I'm sure very few people here have a copy. If you think you could make a walkthrough, go for it! I've seen plenty of good import walkthroughs that ignored the actual language and used stuff like "1st option" to denote choices, so the method works.


Web Design: First, we'll probably be looking for plenty of help on this. The site's eventually going to have a lot of components, and I doubt Jeff wants to do everything. If you think you'd be competent for some tasks, we could probably use the support.

The images, I agree, are a tricky situation. I think the member art is what really makes us have to think about protection. We also have to think about, as you mentioned, individual screenshots that we've taken and such. Pokemon sprites can be grabbed from any site, but for me the big concern is trying to keep someone from being able to grab our information and just copy and paste it into their own site. We don't want to open the door for that. Hotlinking is also annoying, but I don't see that being used much against us (unless someone's trying a DDoS... ugh).

That being said, I'm aware of a few techniques to grab information that go beyond copy-and-paste and the like. I might talk to you in private about them, Jeff, to see what we can do about them... don't want to give away too much about our security in public, as we've said before. That's the critical aspect of the site we have to keep private.

[Phoenixsong]

That looks like a solid list from where I'm standing.

Out of curiosity, are there plans to create the news system by hand or use a premade script? If you're going with premade, all I can suggest is that you avoid CuteNews like the plague. There are better free ones out there (and, of course, paid ones, if someone's willing to spring for that on top of everything else), although I don't know for a fact whether they're as secure as they claim to be. Hm.

A simpler method of doing it, actually, would be creating a special news forum here and simply inserting a feed of that forum into the front page. (Pokébeach does this, for example.) As long as the project higher-ups feel that the board's security is adequate as far as this goes, it takes care of the registration issue (just sign up for an account with the forums, and that way people don't need to keep track of two accounts). The news forum can have special permissions so that only trusted news writers can post threads, but then other users can be allowed to comment. I've never actually seen a specific way to do this with vBulletin (aside from whatever normally needs to be done with feeds, and that may be enough for all I know), but I'm sure it's out there.

As for my specific contributions, well. I'm still kind of swamped/distracted, so for the time being the images would be the easiest thing for me to commit to. I'll go talk to B4, yeah.

I don't see any reason the trivia couldn't just go straight into the Pokédex, as long as it was on its own tab. Some of the Pokémon are fairly simple and straightforward, but I can imagine a section on, say, Jynx, or perhaps some of the legendaries, getting pretty detailed and unnecessarily lengthening the main page. Yes, given how short some of them have the potential to be integrating it into the main dex sounds like the best course of action.

Hm, well, as far as the hot-linking goes, I guess that would depend. I wasn't really thinking of DDoS, honestly, though that's obviously something else that should be considered; it's more the fact that a full-blown born again TPM is going to have a lot of images, and considering the fact that a lot of people just link to images willy-nilly the bandwidth could potentially drain quickly. Most of them won't be especially large (maybe the occasional 3D game screenshot and perhaps the card scans, if those are implemented), but all of them combined will still eat up a lot.

[Jeff]

Man, that would be great if we could tie the news into the forums. As long as it's possible to set up such a forum in vB, then I'm sure someone could just write a PHP script that accesses the forum database for the news forum and displays the most recent threads.

Hotlinking is definitely an issue. I've found ways to prevent/discourage it, but of course I don't feel comfortable discussing our site's security here where everyone and their dog can see.

[Knight of Time]

I have a question myself,

For anyone here that is familiar enough with Psypokes, is Tonberry King there a TPMer?

I'm asking because I remember a TPMer here by the name of Blue Tonberry, and I was wondering if he and Tonberry King are the same person, can someone possibly confirm this, please?

[firepokemon]

In regards to walkthroughs for RSEFRLG/DPPT. Are we not being a bit ambitious to include these on launch? Red, Blue and Yellow and Gold, Silver and Crystal are fine since we have walkthroughs for those already. But to write whole walkthroughs for the newer games is a lot. And perhaps a bit too much on launch. Particularly, when no one has said I'll do it or anything to that effect.

I'll have a think about it today and tomorrow. But I would imagine instead of doing a walkthrough (which a locatordex half covers anyway) would it not be better to do a Gym Leaders Page, an Elite 4 page and a few other things. Like I said I'll have a think about it.

In regards to eventual content? That list looks small. But have you just done it like that so people can get an idea of what we will eventually include or what?

---

Edit:

Also who is going to be playing the ranger shadows of almia game? I wll eventually buy it but I won't have wifi access for ages. Its just as you know there will be additional missions to download and these are only temporarily. Thus anyone playing Shadows of Almia and who do download the additional missions. It would pay if you keep some diary about them so that when we do ranger sections we have that information.

[Knight of Time]

Well, I already talked to Jeff about this on AIM, but how about making a recommended moveset page for each of the final form and non-evolving Pokemon?

On the site called Smogon University, you can find recommended movesets for all the final form and non-evolving Pokemon, spanning all four generations, for example, there is a page with recommended D/P movesets for Absol, right here. Though they have information for each of the movesets (there are multiple movesets, depending on what roles you want to use, such as physical sweeper, special sweeper, Choice Band, etc), we can come up with our own comments for each of those movesets, which no doubt, would probably need plenty of in-game testing, and on top of that, I don't think there are too many more Pokemon sites out there that give recommended movesets for all the final form and non-evolving Pokemon, from all four generations, so I'm just hoping the movesets could become a major part of the games section of the new TPM site.

Anyway, that's my two cents, for now.

[firepokemon]

Knight of Time I like that suggestion. I think we can have a really good pokedex with recommended movesets and the like and have trivial additional information like was said by Phoenixsong. My only concern about this, is do we have the experts who have the skill to do such movesets and we don't want just another Smogon lite moveset type thing.

I think we could do something in regards to wifi, many of Smogon's movesets are easy to do since its via a pokemon battle simulator.But in reality, hidden power moves, moves from XD etc etc are much more difficult. So if we could do it with wifi players in mind, that would be a good thing.

[Black Twist]

This is a complete waste of time.

Do you honestly think TPM is going to relive its glory days when SPP (as much as I hate Serebii and his website), Smogon and Bulbagarden already have all the in-game, competitive gaming and anime information you need?

All you guys have suggested is copying Serebii's layout of information and taking ideas from Smogon. Can't think for yourselves?

[firepokemon]

Who are you?

[Black Twist]

You could probably guess who I am.

I can just see this project turning out like Marriland where only the odd 50 or so regular forum users are going to use the site - everybody else will just go to SPP/BMG/Smogon for their daily Pokemon fix. None of this seems worth the effort, especially when Kevin nor Chris care about TPM's future.

[firepokemon]

Well I had a go at figuring out who this was. Using BMG, Smogon and SPP forum birthdays to see if it matched your birth date. Unfortunately that didn't work. I am rather intrigued now.

As to what TPM can be. Until we set up the site, we'll just keep losing members. If we set up the site and have basic info or info basically similar to others. Sure we won't gain that many people. If we do comprehensive information, sure we're still in competition with the three sites you mentioned. Sits that have had a main page for years now and thus have a fanbase already. TPM doesn't have that privledge anymore, we only have a few members from the forums nowdays.

Basically I do agree with you. That right now what we will be doing and essentially what is planned is rather similar to already established sites. That can't be denied. At the end of the day, we just want a main site up again, that will give us a few more members and keep the forums alive and kicking for more years. If we can do that, essentially we've succeeded. Also Marriland doesn't seem that bad, 4th biggest pokemon site is nothing to sneeze at.

[Jeff]

A few years ago, there was a Pokemon site that was pretty much in the same position we are in now. Its forums were the only part left of the site, and losing activity. So the members started a project to re-create their main site. That site is Bulbagarden, one of the very sites you mentioned. Yes, I think we can come back. Maybe not to our glory days, but at the very least we can stay alive. After we relaunch though, who knows what will happen. Maybe increased forum activity will get more people in on improving the main site allowing us to get better, allowing us to have more members and so on, or maybe we'll just end up with something to attract a few more members than we used to, and thus let these forums stick around. At this point, we don't know for sure what will happen.

[mr_pikachu]

Ooh, a guessing game! I like games. Let's see, for the win, is this... Jay?

Those of us who are working on the website don't really care about outside expectations. We're doing what we can to bring back TPM. That's the long and the short of it.

So! Everyone who wants to work on the site. Comments on the priority list, please!


KoT: Hmm, that might be doable, actually. I think we had a thread for this awhile back in Classic Generation, so we could at least have suggested movesets for those games. As for the newer games, I might be able to track down a couple of our stronger battlers. There are one or two people in particular who might be capable of really good insights on the subject.

What does everyone else think about including movesets? Should I add it to the list? If so, which one? Launch priorities or eventual features?


firepokemon: Well, that's a good point. Walkthroughs take a lot of time to write. I think the question is, how much information do we already have at our disposal? I'll do some digging through the archives in the coming week to see what we've got.

Everyone else, what do you think about firepokemon's point? Should we delay walkthroughs that haven't yet been written until post-launch?

Also, the "eventual features" section is short largely because several areas haven't yet been discussed - the forum sections, for instance. Beyond those, are there any particular features you'd like to see?


Jeff: Should I start a new thread for the to-do list whenever the launch priorities are finalized?

[Jeff]

Yeah, and I'll go ahead and sticky it.

Thanks for reminding me of the GSC move recommendations, I completely forgot about them. I'll see if I can find the thread. (edit: nevermind, it's stickied, that was easy) Which reminds me, what do people think about a sticky thread here where people just post sources of information? You know, things such as archive pages, and the moveset page. Would that make it too easy for other people to just take all our old info, and thus not be worth it?

We'll probably have to delay the walkthroughs that haven't been written yet. Unless someone has absolutely way too much time on their hands and can get them done by launch. I think the Locatordex would be a semi-suitable substitute until they're done.

[Phoenixsong]

Oh, wow, I hope I wasn't giving you the impression that I'd be able to have the Platinum walkthrough done by launch. o_O No, no, I certainly don't have time for that right away, which is why I said for now I'd be better off just helping out in the art department. It sounds much too ambitious to try and get new walkthroughs done so soon.

[mr_pikachu]

Phoenixsong: Haha, gotcha. No worries; just let us know when you're ready to begin work on it. We can probably substitute the Locatordex until we have the newer walkthroughs ready. (Incidentally, how is that progressing, fp?)


Okay, it sounds like we're getting a pretty good consensus about delaying the incomplete walkthroughs until post-launch. I'll glance through the archives within the next two days and see what we have done and what we'll have to write from scratch. (Or someone can do it for me, if you'd like... hint hint.)

[Chris]

You could probably guess who I am.

Hey Jay, long time no see

I can just see this project turning out like Marriland where only the odd 50 or so regular forum users are going to use the site - everybody else will just go to SPP/BMG/Smogon for their daily Pokemon fix. None of this seems worth the effort, especially when Kevin nor Chris care about TPM's future.

It's not that I don't care about TPM - I do what I can for the forums - it's just that I don't have enough time or access (I can't FTP or SSH, for example) to help with development of this project, so unfortunately there's not really much I can give. If others have the time and the dedication to do it, though, I'll certainly help them as much as I can.

[firepokemon]

Been a bit hectic here as of late, so really haven't had a chance to work on the locatordex. But will restart work on it tonight.

As for archives. I have extensively gone through much of what both older sites have (aka the 1999-2001 site) and what the (2003-2004/2005 site). Its in like six different word documents, but I can compile it in the next days if you so wish. Basically, anything pre 3rd generation is rather good. We do have some stuff on Ruby and Sapphire but its relatively minor and not entirely sure how worthwhile it is. The articles themselves seem good, its just that its based off the Japanese version and is before any of the english names etc were released.

One thing that does seem missing is there is no Ruby/Sapphire walkthru. That site is rather hard to work out with the archives since it runs off some weird program Kevin used for the site. Thus, web.archive.org hasn't been able to archive the site terribly well. I suspect some pieces from that site (the 2003-20004) version are missing and were not archived.

[mr_pikachu]

I can help with translating the Japanese names into English. That should be simple enough; I'm pretty familiar with the third-gen games, anyway. As for the compilation of the data you've collected, there's no need to rush yet. That doesn't mean we should slack off by any means, but we're still finalizing the to-do list. Don't burn yourself out, because I'd like your help throughout this project if possible. When you can get it done, get it done and let us know. ^^

I kind of figured we'd be missing some of the archived information. That shouldn't be too big of a problem, though. We can fill in the gaps as necessary... it's writing an entire walkthrough from step one that's difficult.

Quick question, though... was there an FrLg walkthrough? I haven't had time to check, myself; like I said, I planned to do that this coming Tuesday.


Art Department: How is the website logo coming? The sooner you can get that to us, the better. I'm sure it will help Jeff in crafting the layout.


To-Do List: Are there any other suggestions, or should I go ahead and finalize the list (with the RSEDPP walkthroughs moved to post-launch)? The quicker we can move forward, the better.

[Knight of Time]

Quick question, though... was there an FrLg walkthrough? I haven't had time to check, myself; like I said, I planned to do that this coming Tuesday.

Well, I do remember there was a RBY walkthrough on TPM a while ago...let me dig it up.

Ah, found it:

http://web.archive.org/web/200005112...kthru/rby.html

Being as the walkthrough for RB (I'm not mentioning the Yellow version because it's different than the other two, and besides that, there's no remake of it either) is basically a "downgrade" of the walkthrough for Pokemon FR/LG, maybe this one could be used as a base, even though some things would definitely need changing, such as the wild Pokemon locations, the new moves from the second and third generations, and of course the Pokedex would have to be updated to show the new things like genders, abilities, natures, etc.

One final note on this, will the walkthroughs for FR/LG (and subsequently, RSE, and D/P) have picture screenshots? I recall that the site RPGClassics often has picture walkthroughs, but unfortunately they don't have any for any of the Pokemon games, which is a shame, but oh well.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Picture screenshots? Is that a copyright issue? We could draw them ourselves if yes.

[Knight of Time]

Picture screenshots? Is that a copyright issue? We could draw them ourselves if yes.

I basically mean taking screenshots from the games, getting your own screenshots is simple if you're using an emulator, you just have to make sure you own the game you're getting screenshots from.

[Kirby]

I can see you guys being enthusiastic about this for a month or two before thinking "fuck it" and eventually disregarding the entire project. Good luck anyway.