post counts teleported away!

[Lady Vulpix]

Oh, I hadn't seen that one. I'm having connection problems and only got to see that people kept posting here.

Well, then, let's keep the old one even though it's anonymous and doesn't leave room for a 3rd option, just because it was posted first.

...Or we can keep both and see if the results match.

[Drago]

My only concern with this one is the 'don't care' option, as it feels redundant to me. If they don't care, then their vote doesn't really make a difference, y'know?

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

It's part of the principles of democracy that one may abstain. Usually this is accomplished by not voting at all, though, so I agree with DragoKnight.

[Lady Vulpix]

There's a difference between expressing that either way works for you and not bothering to vote/not noticing the poll. We can get a better idea of how representative the poll is if those who abstain and those who do not participate in the poll are not grouped together.

[Drago]

But we either are or are not going to have the post counts hidden. There is no third result stemming from people who are indifferent. You don't go to vote for president and submit a ballot of 'I'm fine either way'.

[Mew Master]

But we either are or are not going to have the post counts hidden. There is no third result stemming from people who are indifferent. You don't go to vote for president and submit a ballot of 'I'm fine either way'.

Sure you do. It's called the Independent Party :X

[Lady Vulpix]

No, independent parties are other options. The "don't mind either way" option is the blank vote (empty envelope) or the null vote (an envelope with anything other than the official ballot, which usually means you don't like any of the options). It's not the same as not voting at all.

[Magmar]

But how would their votes even count? Honestly, we just did a poll in which enough people who seemed to care responded. This is redundant.

[Heald]

On a statistical point, null, don't care or don't know votes are important if you are trying to gauge a broad spectrum of opinion. This is, for example, used when polling the approval rating of politicians, where people are asked options like approve, unsure or disapprove, since it is accepted that some people will neither strongly approve or disapprove of a politician's performance at a given time.

However, in this case, we are clearly trying to determine whether we want to keep post counts invisible or not. The 'don't care' vote is completely pointless here; we are not trying to gauge opinion here, we are trying to make a decision whether or not to keep posts counts invisible or not. Knowing how many people don't care cannot possibly aid the decision-making process here, since, if we're doing this democratically, surely whichever of yes and no gets more votes will be the decision taken. You might find it interesting, yes, but for the decision making here it serves absolutely no purpose and effectively means you haven't voted at all since your vote will not count whatsoever in the final decision.

[Shadow Wolf]

Sorry if this sounds confusing, but let me put it this way:

1-The people who vote "yes" want the posts to be displayed.

2-The people who vote "no" do not want the post to be displayed

3-The people who vote "don't care either way" are because: A-They feel comfortable with or without posts. B-They have reasons to vote for yes, but they also have reason to vote for no. In any of those cases, they took their time to read this and give their opinion in a vote, thus they cannot be discounted.

4-People who didn't vote: A-They don't want to vote. B-They don't care about this post thread, probably because they do not consider it important. C-They haven't read this thread.

See the difference now?

[Ayeun]

But how would their votes even count? Honestly, we just did a poll in which enough people who seemed to care responded. This is redundant.

No, independent parties are other options. The "don't mind either way" option is the blank vote (empty envelope) or the null vote (an envelope with anything other than the official ballot, which usually means you don't like any of the options). It's not the same as not voting at all.

On a statistical point, null, don't care or don't know votes are important if you are trying to gauge a broad spectrum of opinion. This is, for example, used when polling the approval rating of politicians, where people are asked options like approve, unsure or disapprove, since it is accepted that some people will neither strongly approve or disapprove of a politician's performance at a given time.

However, in this case, we are clearly trying to determine whether we want to keep post counts invisible or not. The 'don't care' vote is completely pointless here; we are not trying to gauge opinion here, we are trying to make a decision whether or not to keep posts counts invisible or not. Knowing how many people don't care cannot possibly aid the decision-making process here, since, if we're doing this democratically, surely whichever of yes and no gets more votes will be the decision taken. You might find it interesting, yes, but for the decision making here it serves absolutely no purpose and effectively means you haven't voted at all since your vote will not count whatsoever in the final decision.

As one of those who voted for the 'dont care' vote, I feel that my vote DOES count...

Basicly what I was saying with my vote is this issue is not going to affect me in any way. The only thing it DID affect has been adjsuted, and beyond that, I don't care.

[Drago]

Which is all very interesting, but ultimately can be expressed through posting. Anyhow, whatever. The option is there, and people are using it. So be it.

[Heald]

It's because people are stupid and don't appear to understand simple logic functions.

Which isn't something we didn't already know.

You might as well have put an option 'I prefer grilled cheese to post count visibility' because, well, why discount the votes of those who perhaps do prefer grilled cheese?

[Ayeun]

It's because people are stupid and don't appear to understand simple logic functions.

Which isn't something we didn't already know.

You might as well have put an option 'I prefer grilled cheese to post count visibility' because, well, why discount the votes of those who perhaps do prefer grilled cheese?

I love grilled cheese sandwiches, Heald. But that is not relevant.

What IS is the fact that I don't care. Maybe it is a boy thing, but I don't care how *BIG* my post count is, nor do I look down on people with *SMALLER* post count's than I do.

[Lady Vulpix]

What Ayeun said, grilled cheese is not relevant to the topic.

[Drago]

Analogy (from Greek "ἀναλογία" – analogia, "proportion"[1][2]) is a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.

Ironically, grilled cheese wasn't relevant to Heald's argument, either. More ironically, y'all are reading into the grilled cheese thing as being irrelevant, when it'll make just as much difference as people who vote 'don't care'.

This is fun.

[Mew Master]

Well you big babies got your postcounts back. Stop crying. Lol.

[Oslo]

Well you big babies got your postcounts back. Stop crying. Lol.

This.

[Lady Vulpix]

Ironically, grilled cheese wasn't relevant to Heald's argument, either. More ironically, y'all are reading into the grilled cheese thing as being irrelevant, when it'll make just as much difference as people who vote 'don't care'.

This is fun.

No, it won't, because - unlike grilled cheese - people not caring is relevant to the topic. You may not want to know who cares and who doesn't, but others do. I do, and I believe so do the others who voted for that option.

[Shadow Wolf]

Well you big babies got your postcounts back. Stop crying. Lol.

I can't stop laughing at this. In any case, I think this is done for the time being.

[Heald]

No, it won't, because - unlike grilled cheese - people not caring is relevant to the topic. You may not want to know who cares and who doesn't, but others do. I do, and I believe so do the others who voted for that option.

It's relevant to the topic, but not to the decision making. If you put an extra option for grilled cheese, both the grilled cheese votes and the don't care votes will have exactly the same impact on the final decision i.e. none.

Post counts are back anyway, so who cares.

And I'm nearly at 8000 posts w00t better post 10 more times to get there!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Another win for democracy - a functioning referendum here at TPM!

[Blademaster]

You probably have a funny definition of the word 'democracy.'

[Lady Vulpix]

Well, people have voted and what the majority chose has been done.